How Are You Really with Jenna Kutcher


Jenna Kutcher is the real deal. She’s a mother, digital marketing expert, self-education mastermind, ambitious entrepreneur, and now author!


On today's episode of The She Believed She Could podcast, Jenna explains her unique road to entrepreneurship and how anybody can engineer life-changing decisions. Fortified with years of experience, she shows us the ropes to becoming powerful, which led her to create her successful podcast, the Goal Digger podcast, and her new book, How Are You Really.



Memorable Moments:

6:38 “And so for me, what's been so fascinating is kind of working through this process of figuring out who am I, but not just who am I today; but who do I want to become?”



7:28 “One thing that I want to encourage your listeners is to recognize that like, our identities aren't fixed, we are constantly changing and growing and evolving. And I want us to continue becoming…(7:51) And in doing that, you invite other people to maybe consider different things so that we can continue changing our identities as we should, as students in this thing called Life School.”


10:06 “I think that the way that we are perpetuating this hustle mentality, it is only going to lead us there (burnout). And we have become people who have tuned out those check engine lights so long that something has to suffer for us to wake up to the fact that we're not doing something that sustainable, whether it's relational or health-related”


10:27 “I've had a lot of burnout moments when I've recognized that the dream that I'm working towards, or the goal that I'm working towards, doesn't feel good.”


10:52 “One of the things that I think is really important is to talk about boundaries. I feel like balance was the word for a long time and I feel like boundaries is the new word.”


11:42 “What I want to come coupling alongside that, is boundaries, and how can we invite them into our lives, to really preserve our lives so that the lives that we're living feel good, but that we're enjoying them. That we're not faking to enjoy them, or that we're not spending the whole journey in pursuit of the thing, missing the point.”


15:50 “When you really start to invest in who you are, and who you're becoming, as a human being, that's when things really skyrocket.”


16:11 “If you don't have community in that way, find ways to invite it because it can be a really lonely journey, no matter what you're doing when you don't have somebody who's in that similar life stage.”


Buy the book

Connect with Jenna: @jennakutcher

Subscribe to her podcast here: https://jennakutcherblog.com/goal-digger-podcast/

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Did you love the episode? Check out the transcript below:


Allison: 00:09

Hello ladies, I am ecstatic about today's show. It is very much a pinch me kind of moment, I had the opportunity of interviewing Jenna Kutcher, who I am absolutely a huge fan girl of and I have for the last couple of months been involved behind the scenes in her book launch. And it's been such a cool experience to really get to know more about her and read the book as an advanced copy which was very cool as well and the fact that she was available to jump on this podcast I am just so honored and I soaked up every second of our time together and I hope that you enjoy it as much as I did. She is an expert at online marketing. She is obsessed with teaching others how to make a living doing what they love. She is an unbelievably successful host of the gold digger podcast. If you haven't subscribed, do it right now. It is phenomenal. And she cares deeply about her audience. She is the real deal. She has a new book coming out called How Are You Really?, and we got the chance to sit down and talk all about why this book is so important right now. So I am thrilled you're here, and I'm so excited to introduce you to Jenna Kutcher.


Okay, so Well, Jenna, I am so excited to have you on the show today. Would you mind just giving a brief intro? And we'll get right to it?


Jenna Kutcher 00:20

Absolutely. Well, first off, just thank you so much for having me out. And this is such a treat. I'm so grateful that you're a part of my community. And it's just so fun to connect. But I'm Jenna Kutcher, I'm a mom, I'm a wife, I have two little ones. And I'm an entrepreneur. I'm also a podcaster, just like you. So I host the gold digger podcast. And I recently added author to my resume with my new book, How Are You Really, and I'm just so excited to get it out into the world and get it into people's hands. And so that's kind of where we're at these days are

Allison: 00:50

Perfect and I am so excited because it has been such a pleasure to be a part of kind of like the behind the scenes of the book launch. And I love anytime I get a chance to get a sneak peek. And this book is fabulous. And I love the fact that you're asking us to ask this question of ourselves really, and what it boils down to. So let's talk about why why was it time for this book baby to make its way into the world?

Jenna Kutcher 01:15

Oh, my gosh, what a good question. And you know, it's so funny is that for so long, I said, I would never write a book. I've done so many things in my entrepreneurial decade. And a book was never one of them. Because it just wasn't the right timing. And I'm so grateful that I never forced a book or, you know, took those opportunities that people had presented, because it just wasn't the right time. And so I feel like we're in a very unique time right now, where a lot of us are kind of experiencing this push and pull of like, Where do I belong? And I feel like we're in such a polarizing world in so many different ways. But one of the ways is, especially as ambitious people, ambitious women, we're feeling like we have to pick between hustle culture, this idea, this notion of like, work harder, do more, just keep going. And the other idea the other side of the coin of the manifesting, like, you know, just hold this vision and speak it out. And it'll happen. And I feel like I live in this gray area in so many places in my life, but specifically in how can we hold these visions of what we really deeply desire for our life? But also, how can we take even micro action towards them? How can we be awake to our lives in these active participants. And so this message has just been this theme in my life with conversations with the women that I love. And it when it started flowing, it really flowed so naturally because it was just like what I want to tell my friends, what I want to tell myself, and then what I want to tell the world and I really thought about my daughter someday reading this book and having it almost be this permission, slip of like you can live in this area of gray and work towards the life that you want to have.

Allison: 02:54

And I love the way that you phrase it too. And you know, in the book, it talks about the tiny things, right?

Jenna Kutcher 02:59

Yes!

Allison: 03:00

Having to make a massive sweeping change all at one time, which I think is where a lot of people get stuck because I can't do this right. And the fear right stops us from making any progress. But the tiny habits, so can you give the audience just some suggestions or guidance around kind of how you encourage people to do this, because you were very futuristic in your thought process, right? Like I love the story you share of, you know, being in your position and going you know what, I don't want that. Yeah, sure. And you started to make the changes subtly over time. So let's talk about that a little bit more.

Jenna Kutcher 03:35

Oh, I love this. So I was in a corporate setting. And they presented this five year plan to me and they never once asked me like, What do you want in five years? Or what do you envision for your life? Or how do you want it to feel? And that was a really big red flag for me and kind of this like first like ping of like, Am I in the right place? Like this? Sounds really impressive. This sounds good, but it doesn't feel right. And in the book, I talk a lot about like these micro actions like tiny actions. And I think that there are a lot of times to different people, there's like the jump and then the net will appear. And then there's the people that are like, I'm gonna weave this net so that I know with security and safety, I can make the leap. And I am in the latter camp. I am not someone that is very big risk taker in big decisions like that. And so for me, I had to really take some time to be able to think about, okay, I know what I don't want, and I'm not exactly sure what I do you want but I know what feels better to me. And I think a lot of times we are so lost when it comes to like what is the big vision like I don't I can't even think about what I'm going to eat for dinner. How do I know what I want for my life? But for me, sometimes learning what I don't want or what I will not take or what I don't feel is in alignment with me is a better indicator of how I can start moving in the right direction. And so there's this line in the book where it talks about like, I felt like I was writing to Clydesdales going in opposite directions because the life I was living, did not showcase like what I really wanted, what my values were what I was heading towards. And in order to figure out how to jump from one horse to the other, I had to just take these micro actions and start working towards that vision of something else.

Allison: 05:16

And it's so powerful because those tiny habits add up, they stack up over time, and then you do have more confidence, right, and your ability to make a change or, you know, pivot and one of the concepts that you also talked about that I loved, and I loved the phrase that you used when it was around identity foreclosure. Yes, feeling stuck, right. And I think there's so many people that can relate to that right now, whether they feel stuck, where they don't belong, whether they feel like they need to evolve, but they're not quite there yet, or they're not really sure what to do next. So can we talk about that concept, too, because I think it's sometimes easier to stay stuck, because that's the Safer Choice. But as you discussed throughout the whole book, is this permission to evolve concept? Yeah. Oh, can we go into that a little further?

Jenna Kutcher 06:01

Oh, absolutely. So I had an incredible guest on my podcast, Dr. Maya Shankar, who introduced me to this notion of identity foreclosure. And basically what it means is, have you ever held on to like a pair of jeans that no longer fit you, but you've invested in them? And you're like, maybe someday, or, you know, I know so many people who they start the degree for the dream job and halfway through the degree, they they know that they don't want that job anymore, but they feel like they've already spent two years why would they waste that? And it's like, Wait, we're wasting our future, knowing we're moving in a direction that's not going to serve us. And so for me, what's been so fascinating, is kind of working through this process of figuring out who am I but not just who am I today, but who do I want to become? And I think a lot of times we put so much pressure on like what sounds impressive what sounds good. Instead of saying like, what feels good in my life, like, how do I want to feel? And so for me, as I was navigating out of corporate world and into this new roles, and entrepreneurial, I'm a first generation entrepreneur, I had no entrepreneur examples in my life, I had to really figure out like, where is my worth based? And how do I really make sure that what I'm building isn't just another ladder to climb, there's this this line in the book where it's like, I quit the job. But I didn't quit the game. Like I just started building my own ladders. And it's really easy for us to get out of alignment. And so with identity for closure, one thing that I want to encourage your listeners is to recognize that like, our identities aren't fixed, we are constantly changing and growing and evolving. And I want us to continue becoming, I want us to be able to say, you know, I said I would never write a book. And now I wrote when I said I didn't want to be a mom and I changed my mind and changed minds, I think is like one of the most beautiful things that we can gift ourselves. And in doing that, you invite other people to maybe consider different things so that we can continue changing our identities as we should, as students in this thing called Life School. And as people who can have their mind changed and become something different.

Allison: 08:06

And we have to give ourselves that permission slip as you talked about, right? It's giving ourselves the grace to not have it all figured out to not be perfect at it to shed other people's opinions along the way. And I'm I can totally relate with this identity foreclosure situation. I went to law school because I thought it was the next best thing to do. And then I knew like in my gut, that this is not where I was supposed to be. But I am so stubborn. Yeah. And I'm like, nope, gotta finish it. Even though this is making me absolutely miserable.

Jenna Kutcher 08:38

Yes. We do that don't we? Isn't that funny?

Allison: 08:42

It's crazy!

Jenna Kutcher 08:43

It's so crazy.

Allison: 08:44

We get in our own ways more than anything else. It's crazy. But I really wanted to spend the majority of our time today you talk about burnout a lot. And I think that this is such an important conversation to have. I've had amazing guests on and we've had the chance to explore this further. But, you know, I don't think that we've seen the end of it by any means. And I think that there's a lot of folks that are still not sure what they're feeling but they know they're not feeling right. So can we talk about burnout a little bit more what you're seeing and why this has become such a a theme that you'd like to discuss and dive into?

Jenna Kutcher 09:20

Yeah, you know, I was at this conference one time and I still see this theme so often, where the really successful people have these stories where they drive themselves into the ground, they hustle, hustle, hustle, they hit burnout, and then somehow in some way a breakthrough comes. And I remember hearing people tell the stories at this conference. And it was like every story was the same. It was like we were all working off of the same story arc and it really caused me to pause and be like, is the burnout required for the breakthrough? And being a mom to a toddler I've learned that you can tell a kid stove is hot but sometimes they need to touch it to experience it and I think that a lot of people are that way they have to experience something to really know that they don't want to do that again. But I think that the way that we are perpetuating this hustle mentality, it is only going to lead us there. And we have become people who have tuned out those check engine lights so long that something has to suffer for us to wake up to the fact that we're not doing something that sustainable, whether it's relational or health related. And for me, I've had a lot of burnout moments when I've recognized that the dream that I'm working towards, or the goal that I'm working towards, doesn't feel good. It's like, have you Alison, like ever had this goal or this dream, and you land it and you're like, I thought this would feel different, or I thought it would feel better, or I thought I would feel more proud. It's the worst, right? Because you're like, I just spent all this time working on this. Maybe it wasn't right or meant for me. And so one of the things that I think is really important, is to talk about boundaries. I feel like balance was the word for a long time. And I feel like boundaries is the new word. But I think it's really a well intentioned word that a lot of us need to adopt. Because so many of us specifically women, you mentioned, you're a stubborn woman, you obviously are brilliant. A lot of us are yes, girls, right? Like we're taught to like make everyone feel comfortable, like apologize like all of these things. And boundaries to us have felt like this method of keeping people or things out of our lives, whether it's opportunities, or jobs or things like that. But boundaries to me have been my saving grace, they have been the thing that has kept me in my life. And what I mean by that is, if I say that my values are this one thing, but I'm saying yes to everything else, well, I'm saying no to the thing that I'm telling the world means the most to me. And so when we think about burnout, what I want to come coupling alongside of that is boundaries, and how can we invite them into our lives, to really preserve our lives so that the lives that we're living feel good, but that we're enjoying them that we're not faking to enjoy them? Or that we're not spinning the whole journey in pursuit of the thing, missing the point.

Allison: 12:00

And it's so important that we talk about boundaries. So thank you for bringing that up.

Jenna Kutcher 12:05

Yes.

Allison: 12:06

In fact, I did a keynote on Friday, where I was sharing my my story of burnout, right? The very typical story that you mentioned, right? Like hustle culture, driving ourselves crazy crashing, burning, and then you get to the destination. You're like, Why do I feel so empty? And yeah, like, this isn't what it was supposed to feel like? Or just even like, when it's not in alignment with who you are anymore, right? Yeah, you've been grinding so hard to get to this point. And I'll never forget, I mean, we worked our tails off, and we did everything that we wanted to do. And we made it through challenging times. And I'll never forget moving into our house and somebody asked me, they were like, Alison, how are you liking the new house? I mean, it was like the dream house, right? Like, yeah, did it we were like, Yes, we did it. And I was like, I feel like a stranger on my own my own house. And I was like, it was just this weird feeling. And I'm like, But I grinded, so hard to get here. And now I'm here. And I'm like, why am I not fulfilled? Like, why not feeling the way that I thought it was going to feel? And so, but you know, I think the overarching statement too, is like every time you say yes to somebody else, you're saying no to yourself, right?

Jenna Kutcher 13:11

Yes

Allison: 13:12

So if it's not like, really, it's not a hell yes, it needs to be a hell no, kind of.

Jenna Kutcher 13:16

Yes amen, amen!

Allison: 13:18

And I'm sure you've been feeling this too. Now. I mean, you've got two little ones like, time is the most precious, and your energy has to be preserved for the things that matter most to you. So I love the fact that you are just continuing to put that message on blast, because we all need it. And you have to have like that measuring stick to right. Okay. salutely? No, absolutely. Am I just saying yes to say yes. Am I saying yes. So people will like me and my saying yes, because I think it's the right thing to do. And you gotta check in with your heart center. So well, I know we are coming close on time. I've got two more quick questions for you. At this point, we love to ask our guests to come on the show this at this point in your life, what matters most to you right now.